Verbos Aturdir y Irritan

KatherineA2Kwiziq community member

Verbos Aturdir y Irritan

Puedes ayudarme con una oración en un libro estoy leyendo….No se si el autoro usa la palabra en una manera poética or es normalmente y correcto?  Trying to understand if Aturdir and irritar are normally used like the above verbs ‘ like gustar etc.  The following sentence from New Penguin short stories in Spanish [ de la cuenta ‘ La Indiferencia de Eva].    Me aturden las personas muy activas y, si son mujeres, me irritan. 

Asked 1 year ago
InmaKwiziq team memberCorrect answer

Hola Katherine and all!

It's so nice to see so many people commenting and trying to clarify as per their own experience.

Yes! Those two verbs, aturdir and irritar, work the same way as gustar. They are synonyms of "molestar" (to bother) So you can say for example:

Ese ruido me aturde. 

That noise is bothering me.

Mis vecinos me irritan mucho. Son muy cotillas.

My neighbors bother me a lot. They are very gossipy.

That list we have for reverse verbs like gustar is not a comprehensive list -we included some of them. The list would be very long. 

One thing to consider about these two verbs: aturdir and irritar, is that sometimes the indirect object pronouns could be direct object pronouns; this is accepted with verbs called "verbos de afección psíquica" (molestar, preocupar, ofender, asustar, irritar, aturdir...) so you may see them using lo, la, los, las instead of le, les. 

Saludos a todos

Inma

JohnC1 Kwiziq Q&A super contributor

Hola Katherine,

I am fairly confident that neither of the two verbs you have mentioned are “verbs like gustar.” You can see this from the conjugation in your sentence. They are classic ir and ar verbs respectively, with direct objects; literally: “Me they bother” [they bother me] …….. “me they irritate” [they irritate me].

The “verbs like gustar” are a group which as far as I know are very specific to Spanish. There are many lists on the internet, most of which are not definitive, but the one provided with your original question from this course is as complete as I have found anywhere.

I’m sure Inma would be able to clarify this further. Saludos. John

KatherineA2Kwiziq community member

John (sorry not sure how to reply in this posting)… are you saying that the use of these two verbs was used wrong in the sentence in the book? The author wrote… that “the people” (they)bewilder him and they irritate him.  Just like someone would say…. A mi me gustan los libros de arte.  

JohnC1 Kwiziq Q&A super contributor

Hi Katherine, 

To be clear  I think the verbs have been used correctly and would normally be used in this way. Word order may be confusing the issue here a bit. As native Spanish speakers the teachers may be able to add some nuances here, and even offer contrasts with alternative possibilities.

Nonetheless do bear in mind that that “A mí me gustan los libros de arte” does translate as “I like art books” or “I like books of (about) art” and the “pleasing to me” is only a device to get native English speakers to understand what is going on.

I hope that helps  Saludos John

DavidC1 Kwiziq Q&A super contributor

Hi there Katherine; Hi there John ...

I confess that I cannot see why 'irritar'and 'aturdir' should not be included in the list at https://progress.lawlessspanish.com/learn/theme/707648

If they are different in some way from the other verbs there, then I would certainly be interested to learn why they do not qualify to be added.

The sentence "Me aturden las personas muy activas y, si son mujeres, me irritan" seems quite correct.

DavidC1 Kwiziq Q&A super contributor

It is true that sentences with 'gustar' do tend to be translated [and reworded] using the English verb 'like' - rather than 'please', so Kwiziq has labelled this as a 'reverse verb'; i.e., in John's example we will not usually hear someone saying "Art books please me".

And this^ same observation could indeed be applied to several other verbs in that Kwiziq list at ...707648 - but not to all of them, e.g. we will often read or hear expressions in English like: "it bores me", "it fascinates me", and "it interests me, [plus: "It irritates me"].

KatherineA2Kwiziq community member

I don’t have any problem with that way it’s interpreted in english —I like knowing the literal and reasonable translations— and I understand  the word order —that all makes perfect sense to me —I just wondered if or how these 2 are different here— but maybe they can be used that way —/honestly I’m sure I’ve spent way too much time considering it — that’s what I get for reading books, mas difíciles para mi nivel — jaja  Muchas Gracias David / John — hasta luego   —  es bueno aceptar que es así 

GennadyC1Kwiziq Q&A regular contributor

It's a great question, and I’d love to see the responses from the professors. To me, the “litmus test” is to apply the verb to a person and see whether it would require a direct object pronoun or an indirect one. Applying it to the 1st person is ambiguous because “me” is both, so it's better to use a 3rd person and see whether it requires “lo” or “le”. With “ gustar” and many others it's clear it's “le gusta”, “le molesta”. For the same reason, from the analogy with “molestar”, I'd think it's “ le irrita”, so the verb “irritar” is indeed like “gustar”. But looking around, I've seen both “lo” and “le”, so I'm not sure. Sometimes it's hard to say because of “leismo”. Another useful test ( and maybe are exceptions) is to see if the verb can only be applied to a living person or creature. Obviously, one cannot irritate a chair.

KatherineA2Kwiziq community member

Hola Inma — gracias!  I get how this list can’t be showing every single one … Entiendo que la lista no es exhaustiva.  But it makes me feel a little better to know that i recognized what was happening with verbs i didn't see often.  Im hovering around B1 … there are so many tools out there now to learn spanish i end up feeling exhausted! Need to take some quizzes on your website!  But I still like to read books the best — y me encanta cuando me doy cuenta de algo ❤️  The Ah-ha moment — I really want to read books at a higher level as the ones in New Penguin’s Short Stories in Spanish [ como ‘ La Indiferencia de Eva].  This is exciting — Thank you again!

InmaKwiziq team member

Hola Katherine

¡Claro que sí! Es una satisfacción el poder conectar puntos gramaticales en frases que leemos en libros y que hemos aprendido en la clase. Eso significa que nuestro aprendizaje va bien. Leer libros en español es una opción estupenda para expandir el vocabulario y la gramática además de pasar un buen rato leyendo. 

Podrías preguntar en el foro a los estudiantes qué libros en español recomiendan, teniendo en cuenta que tu nivel es B1 de momento... 

Saludos

Inma

Verbos Aturdir y Irritan

Puedes ayudarme con una oración en un libro estoy leyendo….No se si el autoro usa la palabra en una manera poética or es normalmente y correcto?  Trying to understand if Aturdir and irritar are normally used like the above verbs ‘ like gustar etc.  The following sentence from New Penguin short stories in Spanish [ de la cuenta ‘ La Indiferencia de Eva].    Me aturden las personas muy activas y, si son mujeres, me irritan. 

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