Subjunctive following 'todos aquellos'

DavidC1Kwiziq Q&A regular contributor

Subjunctive following 'todos aquellos'

I understood from the lesson on 'Whoever / all those who' that todos aquellos was always followed by a subjunctive.

...una muñeca querida en los corazones de todos aquellos que han tenido el placer de disfrutar...  shouldn't this be hayan tenido el placer?

Gracias

Asked 1 month ago
InmaKwiziq team memberCorrect answer

Hola David

You can use the subjunctive or the indicative, it depends. By the end of the lesson there is a note saying so. These are relative clauses that could be referring to something "known" or "unknown". If you have a look at this lesson on relative clauses you'll find the explanation. 

I hope it helps.

Saludos cordiales

Inma

DavidC1Kwiziq Q&A regular contributor

Hola Inma

The lesson on indicative or subjunctive with relative clauses is very interesting.

It says....We use the subjunctive when "que" is referring to someone or something that we do not know exists and/or is not known to us.

In this case  'all of those who have had the pleasure of enjoying her company' then the speaker cannot possibly know all such people. Why then is it indicative? Or am I missing someting?

Gracias

MarcosC1 Kwiziq Q&A super contributor

If I remember the subjunctive lesson correctly, for “all those who…” or “the ones who…” we don’t need to know every person, we just need to know that such persons exist, or be reasonably sure that they do. In this case the speaker is confident that such people exist and thinks it highly unlikely that they wouldn’t. (Inma, please correct this if it is incorrect.)

DavidC1Kwiziq Q&A regular contributor

Marcos

In the lesson on todos aquellos the following example is given:

Invitaré a la fiesta a todos aquellos que sean buenos amigos. I will invite all those who are good friends to my party.

 The rule is:

We use the subjunctive when "que" is referring to someone or something that we do not know exists and/or is not known to us.

How can good friends fall into that category? I give up!

InmaKwiziq team member

Hola David y Marcos

I understand that specific example can be confusing as there doesn't seem to follow the logic to use the subjunctive. What the speaker is thinking in this sentence using the subjunctive: 

Invitaré a la fiesta a todos aquellos que sean buenos amigos. 

I will invite all those who are good friends to my party.

is that he will invite all those that are indeed good friends but at the moment of saying it, it is as if he still hasn't decided who those will be. So, once he, say, makes the list, then he'll have it more clear who those good friends are (and those will be invited).

So, it is the same sense of "not knowing", but not "not knowing the friends", it's about not knowing specifically who among those friends that he has will be the good ones and he will then invite. 

The difference with using the indicative instead (todos aquellos que son buenos amigos) is that in this case the image of those good friends is very clear in his mind when he says it.

Does this make sense? 

Inma

 

DavidC1Kwiziq Q&A regular contributor

Hola Inma

Thanks for the explanation. I understand the difference between indicative and subjunctive in relative clauses but after 'todos aquellos' it seems much more nuanced.

I was confused because in the lesson all the examples seem to be subjunctive. Perhaps you could modify it to have a couple of examples which directly compare and contrast with the indicative to see how the meaning shifts.

Saludos

David

Subjunctive following 'todos aquellos'

I understood from the lesson on 'Whoever / all those who' that todos aquellos was always followed by a subjunctive.

...una muñeca querida en los corazones de todos aquellos que han tenido el placer de disfrutar...  shouldn't this be hayan tenido el placer?

Gracias

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